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</html>";s:4:"text";s:13386:"Click Here to join Eng-Tips and talk with other members! Concrete requires sufficient water both to hydrate the cement in the mixture and to create a workable consistency. While the permeance of the vapor retarder is important, its ability to withstand construction activity is also important. The slab was installed in the 50s. Several investigations have shown that the relative humidity in the base and subgrade just beneath the slab is near 100%, regardless of the depth of the water table. Omitting a vapor retarder may also result in liability for a flooring failure, since its use is often published in guidelines from many flooring manufacturers.Placement location of vapor retarders is often a source of confusion for designers and contractors. By joining you are opting in to receive e-mail. The use of a vapor barrier (more accurately termed a vapor retarder), having a water vapor permeance of less than 0.3 perm is frequently used to retard the flow of moisture through the slab. Although capillary action can cause liquid water to rise, diffusion is how water vapor distributes itself above the water table. "Vapor barriers aggravate the problems of plastic and shrinkage cracking. Thus, the vapor barrier has nothing to do with it. For a time in the 1980s and 1990s, ACI recommended using a "blotter" layer, on top of the vapor barrier. Choosing a Vapor Barrier. Thank you for helping keep Eng-Tips Forums free from inappropriate posts.The Eng-Tips staff will check this out and take appropriate action. As moisture moves toward the top of a slab, soluble alkalies are frequently carried with it. In 2001, the recommendation changed to typically placing the concrete directly on the vapor barrier. But they have also proven to be beneficial in reducing failures of moisture-sensitive flooring materials, adhesives, and coatings caused by excessive emission of moisture vapor from concrete slabs. *Eng-Tips's functionality depends on members receiving e-mail. Rose (1997) regales readers of this history. Promoting, selling, recruiting, coursework and thesis posting is forbidden. All vapor barriers should conform to ASTM E-1745; but consider going with a barrier that has water vapor permeance less than 0.3 perms. Beneath continuous flooring, moisture can also cause ripped or separate seams, air bubble efflorescence deposits, and other deterioration. Bruce A. Suprenant Concrete Construction, April, 1992. Login. Often, it's the concrete contractor who spreads it out just before placing concrete. A: A vapor barrier is used under concrete slabs to prevent moisture migration from the soils. The Barrier⢠product family is a high-performance EPS foam underslab insulator and vapor retarder, designed to insulate and retard moisture migration through concrete. Water or water vapor rising out of a concrete slab on grade can cause flooring to lose adhesion, to warp, and to peel. Structural engineering general discussion Forum, Cloud Computing to Solve Numerical Engineering Models, A Beginner’s Guide to Generative Design, How Engineers are Designing Human Machine Interfaces, Off-Road Trends: Driving Cleaner, More Efficient and Connected Machinery. They can protect floor coverings or electronic equipment. It is simply a new, but powerful technology to help companies deliver their best designs in less time. Extend vapor barrier over footings and seal to foundation wall, grade beam, or slab at an elevation consistent with the top of the slab or terminate at impediments, such as water stops or dowels. Current recommendation of ACI Committee 302 is to place a concrete slab directly on top of a vapor retarder when the concrete slab surface will receive a vapor sensitive floor covering. Fre⦠slump, can contain between 1600 and 1700 pounds of free water in a 1000-square-foot area!The rate that moisture escapes from a slab depends on the concrete w/c, the density of the finish, the ambient conditions above the slab, and the moisture below the slab. In the absence of effective moisture protection directly beneath the slab, the high humidity environment beneath the slab can contribute to an increase in moisture within the concrete over time.Moisture-induced failure of flooring materials may appear in the form of cupping, bulging, or swelling. The history of cold climate vapor barriers itself is a story based more on personalities than physics. I saw no problem with this but the contractor is adamant that it is bad to install a vapor barrier under an outdoor slab. FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies. Vapor barriers are used to minimize moisture inflow through concrete in contact with water or water vapor. Check out Eng-Tips Forum's Policies here:
Perminator also helps reduce radon gases from entering a building through the concrete floor. Explore global and U.S. market trends that are driving new thinking, designs, and technologies in advanced off-road machinery. Copyright © 1998-2021 engineering.com, Inc. All rights reserved.Unauthorized reproduction or linking forbidden without expressed written permission. Do you have a product that might work for this? Consider using concrete having a w/c not greater than 0.45 to hasten slab drying time. We plan to install strandwoven click together solid bamboo floating floor over a moisture barrier on our ground floor concrete slab. If ground conditions require their use, a 3-inch (75-millimeter) layer of sand over the vapor barrier (and under the concrete) has been shown to reduce these problems. Install the proper type of vapor barrier siouxland homes why a plastic vapor barrier under concrete slab mondays with vapor barriers in concrete foundations networx are vapor ers necessary for bats and garages install the proper type of vapor barrier siouxland homes under slab vapor barriers done right professional builder. Each project should be considered individually; however, the following general recommendations are useful in mitigating moisture-related problems in concrete floor slabs-on-grade: by Steve Ragan, Director, Research and Technical Services. Many manufactures require that the moisture emission rate from concrete not exceed 3.0 pounds of water per 1000 square feet in 24 hours. As a result, the ACI Committee 302 now recommends that floor slabs-on-grade being covered with moisture-sensitive coverings have the vapor retarder placed on top of dry granular fill and directly beneath the slab.Confusion and debate over the use of vapor retarders will likely continue into the future. Roll out vapor barrier with the longest dimension parallel with the direction of the concrete pour. To better understand a materialâs ability to slow moistureâs movement, for instance, vapor barriers are categorized into three classes depending on ⦠Failure of floor coatings typically manifests as blistering. Unless this diffusion is restricted, water vapor will contact and enter the slab. An example of capillary action is water rising to a higher elevation inside a narrow straw that is placed into a glass of water. However, recognize that the capillary break will not prevent moisture from reaching the slab in vapor form. Reasons such as off-topic, duplicates, flames, illegal, vulgar, or students posting their homework. Do you know if there are any contra-indications to putting the vapor barrier on TOP of the concrete to separate it from the carpet pad. Where to position the vapor barrier has been argued about for years. thick slab, constructed with concrete having a 0.50 water-cement ratio (w/c) and a 4-in. All too often, when a decision is made to include a vapor retarder the choice becomes 6-mil polyethylene commonly found on jobsites. Floor covering manufacturer’s published literature should be consulted. Capillary action in soils can be interrupted by a capillary break, such as a layer of crushed stone between the slab and the subgrade.Although a capillary break may stop the rise of water in a liquid state, it does not eliminate the potential for moisture vapor to reach the slab. In summer when the slab is warmer, that does not occur. He did not have a good reason except that this was common knowledge not to do this. If mesh or rebar is part of the work, it is laid on top of the plastic, workers drive stakes through it to secure forms, and while placing concrete, further damage results from shovels, wheelbar⦠Moisture Barrier Between the Sole Plate & the Concrete Slab. Moisture in concrete can occur from a variety of sources: ground moisture that contacts the slab through either capillary action or as water vapor, high air humidity or drastic changes in relative humidity in its environment, leaking plumbing that passes through the slab, and more. DIY Weed Barrier Under Pavers. Their use should be avoided where ground moisture conditions permit. . To gain additional compute capacity, many engineering firms are adopting cloud-based High-Performance Computing (HPC) which offers virtually unlimited compute capacity. If you are in a northern climate area where there gets deicing salt, then that will later cause "sweating" on a cold slab during damp periods, attracted to the salt. Place the vapor retarder on top of the granular material and directly beneath the slab for moisture-sensitive floor covering and coating applications. (Remember that concrete is porous and soaks up water like a sponge.) Other harmful effects include damage to flat electrical cable systems, buckling of carpet or carpet tiles, odors, and fungi growth. by Steve Ragan, Director, Research and Technical ServicesThe answer to this controversial question, from both angles, is a qualified “yes.” Vapor barriers have been associated with certain concrete slab-on-grade problems including curling and cracking. . Water changes from a liquid to a vapor as it evaporates, and water vapor will move from areas of high to low vapor pressure. These vapor retarders are typically polyethylene or polyolefin sheeting materials. The first way is through capillary action. It can even damage the concrete itself and corrode steel reinforcements within the concrete. Please let us know here why this post is inappropriate. W.R. Meadows 10 and 15 Mil Vapor Barrier: W.R. Meadows makes a concrete vapor barrier called PERMINATOR. Use of fly ash may help reduce soluble alkali content in the slab. Pulling the weeds that have sneaked through the narrow spaces between your garden-path or patio pavers can give you a real pain in the neck. Watertight concrete is often considered to have a w/c less than 0.50. Concrete must have a capillary break or the concrete will remain damp for years. Your advice makes sense. Not sure there was an actual water vapor barrier under the slab either. Had a client who was installing an outdoor patio adjacent to their house. All Viper II products are tested and engineered to meet and exceed the Class A, B and C requirements outlined in ASTM E 1745 (Standard Specification for Plastic Water Vapor Retarders Used in Contact with Soil or Granular Fill under Concrete Slabs). Generative design is promising to revolutionize products and the way they are made. Many moisture problems associated with interior concrete floors and slabs on grade can be minimized or eliminated by installing a vapor barrier under the concrete. Bottom line: If you want to make sure your slab on ground gets dry and stays dry, use a vapor barrier. Concrete pros recommend vapor barriers even in dry climates because soil always harbors moisture, which the drier air will pull out. The American Concrete Institute’s Guide for Concrete Floor and Slab Construction recommends that the thickness of the vapor retarder be at least 10 mils. Already a Member? Its main purpose is to keep moisture in the soil under a concrete slab from migrating up into the house. Sole plates, or sill plates, are the first pieces of framing lumber placed in home construction. Thanks for the posts. QUESTION: We are looking for a product that can be laid on a concrete slab to act as a vapor barrier between the concrete and the carpet we plan to put in our basement. However, in doing so, recognize that additional attention should be given to the design of reinforcement so that potential curling stresses within the slab are addressed. Many concrete sealers may prevent the intrusion of water but not water vapor. The vapor barrier under a concrete slab is one of these. Vapor Diffuser Classifications. However, using a concrete with a low w/c alone is often insufficient to satisfy the floor covering industry’s moisture emission requirements. Include a capillary break of granular material below the slab. The previously had issues with the concrete "sweating" so they wanted to add a vapor barrier. The same concrete not sealed from below required 144 days to reach the same vapor emission rate. However the ACI has since revised this recommendation because of their recognition that fill courses above the vapor retarder may sometimes take on water from rainfall, curing, or sawcutting. felt pad had been glued to the ⦠I live in a single-level ranch style house but on a concrete pad. Anyone that has had to face a moisture problem with a concrete slab understands the damage that excess moisture can cause. This water can generally move upward through soil and contact the bottom of a slab-on-grade in one of two ways. ";s:7:"keyword";s:34:"vapor barrier under concrete patio";s:5:"links";s:1057:"<a href="http://www.happytokorea.net/i7udpc/c1fe32-jet-sprint-boat-g-force">Jet Sprint Boat G Force</a>,
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